Our 80th episode kicks of the start of season five! Rod and Jal are joined by longtime collaborator and global education leader Anthony (Tony) Mackay for a wide-ranging conversation on transformation, artificial intelligence, and what it really means to design learning systems for human flourishing.
Anthony Mackay is the immediate past CEO and current Co-Chair of the Washington DC-based National Center on Education and the Economy, while also serving as Deputy Chancellor, Swinburne University, Melbourne, Australia; Honorary Senior Fellow of the Graduate School of Education at the University of Melbourne; and Visiting Professor to the International Centre for Educational Enhancement, University of Bolton, UK. He has held multiple positions within education and continues to consult in parts of the United States, United Kingdom, and Australia – it's safe to say that Tony has been leading or part of every important global conversation around education in the last 20 years. Highlights from this season premiere episode include: an opening dialogue that reminds everyone of how old they are; artificial intelligence's disruptive nature and whether it can be viewed as a mirror showcasing what tasks no longer make sense in education systems; comparing AI to a "crappy intern;" how we can identify localized innovation and build it into larger scale transformation; the redefining of education to be focused on human flourishing – moving towards the portrait of a learner that is caring for self, others and the planet; and of course producer Gino's lightning round with an AI twist!
Check out the OECD Digital Education Outlook 2026
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